***Official Question*** Most important Steam feature?

[larsiusprime]

I need some info, guys. We've got only a few days before the Steam launch and I need to know where to focus my efforts now that we've got the Steam SDK (mostly) setup. Time is tight and Steam integration might only be available for the windows version at launch, though I want to hit the Mac build to eventually.

As I might only be able to get one major feature working prior to launch, I'd like some feedback as to what we should focus on

[Chiatroll]

woot workshop wins the poll.

[coyot]

Well, 4 votes is not really that much

Guess a lot of people didn't vote (I didn't coz I don't use steam so I have very little clue what these things are about )

[larsiusprime]

Glad to see workshop's a priority for the forum dwellers, but I'm afraid I have to announce achievements wins for the top spot. I posted this in various places around the internet and most people just posted replies rather than voting.

At final count, the results were:
1) Achievements
2&3) Cloud Saves & Workshop closely tied

This probably means I'll do workshop after getting achievements ready.

[larsiusprime]

Glad to see workshop's a priority for the forum dwellers, but I'm afraid I have to announce achievements wins for the top spot. I posted this in various places around the internet and most people just posted replies or sent them to in me in email rather than voting on our forum

At final count, the results were:
1) Achievements
2&3) Cloud Saves & Workshop closely tied

This probably means I'll do workshop after getting achievements ready.

[Yinan]

lol, y make a poll if you completely ignore the result? ^^

I personally hate achievements. They are the most worthless invention of all time.
If theyre bonuses, like if you killed 100 creeps you get a bonus of x% damage, now that is good. But the Steam Achievements are all just "make some stupid taskt that you would normally never do" and you get a little picture. Now you can brag about the fact that you were dumb enough to do that stupid task -.-

(Yes, i really hate Achievements that much)

[larsiusprime]

I made the poll as a way of capturing input, which I also captured in several other places. I took all the votes from each source (including this one) and added them together

I personally don't care about achievements, either, and I would have voted for Steam Workshop myself. But we only had time for one feature before October 30th, and the people have spoken!

Steam Workshop and Cloud Saves will likely follow, in a future patch.

[DarthFly]

I personally hate achievements. They are the most worthless invention of all time.
If theyre bonuses, like if you killed 100 creeps you get a bonus of x% damage, now that is good. But the Steam Achievements are all just "make some stupid taskt that you would normally never do" and you get a little picture. Now you can brag about the fact that you were dumb enough to do that stupid task -.-

(Yes, i really hate Achievements that much)

Not all achievements are bad. Too bad that now they are popular like some FPS and made for crowd, but good achievements must make some king of challenge to the player. Killing several millions of kreeps is a bad example, but manage to find some strategy to kill some big-bad-boss - would be great. The first example in my head - is Ultima Weapon from Final Fantasy 8 (yes, this game don't have achievement, i know). But here is a quote from a player who made guide how to kill it

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- II. Why Fight Ultima Weapon? -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone recently asked me why they should fight Ultima Weapon.. Why? WHY?

Being a gamer by nature, I didn't understand their question.. For me, just
knowing that Ultima Weapon is out there is enough of a reason.. The joy of
testing my skills against him is enough of a reason.. In fact, I enjoyed the
fight with Ultima Weapon so much that I saved a different slot where I can go
back and fight him whenever I want.. (I'm thinking of going with no GFs)

But back to the question.. If the thrill of the hunt isn't enough for you,
then there are other reasons to go after Ultima Weapon.. For one, you can
draw ULTIMA from him.. The easiest way I know of to fill up on Ultima spells
is to draw them from him.. Ultima Weapon also has EDEN, the BEST Guardian
Force in the game.. And, if you collect the cards like I do, you need the
Eden card too, don't you? (Getting it on disc 4 just isn't the same)

But games of that kind are (almost) not made now...

[Yinan]

But well, thats not an Achievement, but an ingame enemie that normally can not be killed unless you Maximize your stats.

And I don't hate that, not at all, i liked grinding vor Ultima Weapon.

But it's nothing like an achievement.

I still say, achievements are Useless.

[coyot]

I still say, achievements are Useless.

Define useless.

If a significant number of customers want a particular feature, if presence of that feature makes it more enjoyable for them and absence of it makes them feel unsatisfied, then it's not useless.

Yes, I myself of course prefer the kind of achievements that gives at least very small ingame bonuses or access to cool but not necessarily best gear/abilities. But well-designed achievements are even a way to promote i.e. less obvious play styles or motivate people to challenge themselves. A few examples:

Bad achievements:
* kill x enemies
* complete y levels
* play for x hours/days

Good achievements:
* kill x enemies by Azra's spells
* kill x enemies by ice

Nice achievements:
* complete level x using only this or that
* complete (insert any challenge type here, like no recruiting, no grinding etc.)

[DarthFly]

But well, thats not an Achievement, but an ingame enemie that normally can not be killed unless you Maximize your stats.

Ok, define 'an Achievement' then.
Jumping in real life with Bungee cord - is an Achievement. Marriage - also. Childs, work, anything - an Achievement. It depends on peoples reality, what they do in real life, but everything can be considered as Achievement. If you don't think that killing Ultima Weapon (what not everybody can do without manuals) is not a good goal, then in this way you can tell that any military medals (which is a father of achievements) is not an award.

Well, it can be complicate.... Some medals is not awards, they are created just to add more ago to peoples. But some are given for real achievements, although not all people who receive them thinking about it like some sort of extraordinary - most of the time it's their duty. Same for game achievements. It's for you to decide, but they will be popular.

[Yinan]

Well, comparing real life to a game is never a good idea -.-

Game Achievements: I get an Icon that tells me that i just did something...

For example "Beat the big bad optional Boss". Great, now i get an Icon telling me, that i defeated that boss.... as if i didn't know that. So, this Icon is completely useless!
So only thing you can use it for is as a proof that you did it... so it's just for e-penis... great, thats what we need -.-
And seriously, it's just pathetic if we really have to proof to someone that we beat something in a friggin GAME.

So, i still stand with it: In my opinion, Achievements are completely useless!

The Big Bad optional Boss that you need to defeat to get the Achievement ist great, the Achievement itself on the other hand, is in my opinion completely useless and redundant.


But hey, that's just my opinion. Nobody has to share this opinion with me. If you think otherwise, fine with me.

[coyot]

Well, the achievements, if implemented well, are more to show you "what else you can do" in the game apart from just beating it. Take them more as an inspiration. (Do you play TBD5? They have daily challenges that are more or less exactly this - here's a map you know and here's the restrictions and changes, try to beat it. And quite often it's fun and quite often it teaches you that this particular character class is much better than you originally thought).

(And it doesn't really matter whether the achievements are shown as icons on your profile, or stuck in a menu somewhere, or completely unofficial list maintaned on a forum somewhere)

[Thorril]

I'd really like to see workshop integration - since Steam Workshop was launched, it's quickly taken over as the first place I go for mods for the games that are integrated. If you like, you can always find a fan site or forum to read about mod development, etc., but it's nice not to have to register anywhere else and to be able to upload very easily. I think it's a great way of getting a modding community going.

[larsiusprime]

Yeah, I definitely want to get workshop integrated soon. That'll be in the next patch if I can manage it.

[JimReadsThings]

Well, the achievements, if implemented well, are more to show you "what else you can do" in the game apart from just beating it. Take them more as an inspiration.

I agree with this. Having achievements simply for progressing normally in the game is pointless to me - unless the game in question is purposefully difficult so that progressing is actually an achievement in and of itself (like Super Hexagon). One of the worst implementations of achievements I've ever seen is actually in one of my favorite games: Cave Story.

Most of the Steam achievements for Cave Story+ are stuff the average player gets normally - I can understand achievements for getting each weapon (there are ten different weapons in the game and a carry limit of five, and some weapons take some searching to get), but an achievement for each boss? An achievement for getting every health or ammo upgrade? Bleh.

How about an achievement for beating the game with only two weapons (which I've done)? Or an achievement for beating the game without the Missile Launcher (the game's strongest weapon)? Or an achievement for beating the game without trading your starting weapon for a better one?

Good achievements are ones like they have for Team Fortress 2 or FTL; aside from offering optional challenges that you as a player can try, they can also serve the same purpose as real life trophies - confirmation of your skill at a thing (which can feel good no matter how trivial the thing in question is).

[Hollow]

I'm going to let you in on a secret:

Achievements aren't for you. They're for the developer.

Achievements let developers see how far their playerbase got in their game before giving up, and allows them to try and figure out -why- a sudden drop in players stopped playing the game before beating Boss #4. Was the story between Boss #3 and Boss #4 too boring or annoying, or was Boss #4 too difficult? This helps them with patches and learning their mistakes for sequels.

Of course, any developer with any sense to them will also include general 'fun' achievements for players, too.